This is refreshing, I’ve felt there is something off about the Silicon Valley (or maybe it’s just American) connotations of agency and the competitive emphasis is absolutely it. It bothers me a lot because it implies agency can be zero sum, some people can have it others not, which seems to contradict the point of agency if it lives more in the realm of lofty innate human ideals like free will or expression. Authenticity is the key challenge that agency is supposed to solve to me (and maybe to some people that is about winning/achievement) but to some that can really be compromised by the need to compete.
"A book about how to handle being sentenced to freedom, and to handle it effectively, and authentically, and responsibly. Which would it be? I can’t think of a book like that. Maybe I should write it."
and "Defined like this, agency and introspection are closely entwined—they are the external and internal version of the same thing. A kind of perceptiveness. A capacity to see what is going on, accept it, and chart an effective path in the most interesting direction."
I will miss the opportunity for the video call but I guess you’ll agree that my spending time with some of my kids is at least as fortunate a thing to do. ☺️
Maybe I can contribute a bit though by sharing the following quote from Swiss philosopher Denis de Rougemont.
I was reminded of it while going through my notes and highlights for a piece by @genagorlin and it’s from his 1936 book “Penser avec les mains” (Thinking with your hands). Denis de Rougemont – also citing Rilke – wrote down this beautiful idea which I think also matches nicely the “introspection by doing”:
“It is time that thought becomes what it truly is: dangerous for the thinker and able to transform reality. “Where I create is where I am true” Rilke. […] Some think, other acts. But man’s true condition is to think with his hands.”
A book or essay series on agency sounds great. I'd love to join the call.
Living a life with much manual labor (fetching water, growing food, etc) has had a positive impact on me. Though I have much less free time, I feel better able to (slowly) understand what actually matters.
yes, I couldn’t find your email and I wanted to return to the call as rapidly as possible so I did what I could! glad you figured out where I put the link. thanks for today :)
Loved the observation that competition pulls you away from yourself. Competition does feel somewhat antithetical to agency. Competition is playing games that others have already created, but agency means playing a game of your own
Ribbonfarm and the Ribbonfarm Studio here on Substack are two of my favourites. You might find it interesting BTW that Rao considers Taleb as his “evil twin”:
“…somebody who thinks exactly like you in most ways, but differs in just a few critical ways that end up making all the difference. Think the Batman and the Joker.”
A lot of Venkatesh’s thinking relates back to James Carse’s work on “Finite and Infinite Games” and the idea of whether you act as a “finite player” (playing to win) or as an “infinite player” (playing to play - and compete for life, if you wish). I think he mentions it in the post Henrik links to, the book itself is worthwhile, up to the very last line (literally!).
Hm. I think I included you (are you phuonghatrannguyen00@gmail.com). I'll send again and if you don't recieve it, check the spam folder, and then let me know here in the comment and I'll send you the meeting link in DMs instead. See you soon!
Great post - I always love reading content that examines sincere and non competitive flavours of agency vs their alternatives . And btw I’d love to join this call! 😁
That's a neat idea you got there, charting an optimally accurate of both inner and outer reality, and then plotting a course in it to get what you want.
Has traces of Hesse's "You can get everything if you can think, wait, fast" in Siddartha, as he also charts a course and then endures it until he hits the target, he describes the course itself like being a rock, sinking to the bottom of the river, after you have flung yourself in.
Your form of agency would be calculating the flight angle of the rock before flinging it.
I don't think that is agency tho, agency is having the will (to power) to actually fling the rock, send it off, let it fly.
This is refreshing, I’ve felt there is something off about the Silicon Valley (or maybe it’s just American) connotations of agency and the competitive emphasis is absolutely it. It bothers me a lot because it implies agency can be zero sum, some people can have it others not, which seems to contradict the point of agency if it lives more in the realm of lofty innate human ideals like free will or expression. Authenticity is the key challenge that agency is supposed to solve to me (and maybe to some people that is about winning/achievement) but to some that can really be compromised by the need to compete.
"A book about how to handle being sentenced to freedom, and to handle it effectively, and authentically, and responsibly. Which would it be? I can’t think of a book like that. Maybe I should write it."
and "Defined like this, agency and introspection are closely entwined—they are the external and internal version of the same thing. A kind of perceptiveness. A capacity to see what is going on, accept it, and chart an effective path in the most interesting direction."
really spoke to me. Incredible writing Henrik
Please write the book. PLEASE write the book.
I would like to *try* to join the call, pending early Father's Day arrangements with my partner and his kids father and his kids...
I will miss the opportunity for the video call but I guess you’ll agree that my spending time with some of my kids is at least as fortunate a thing to do. ☺️
Maybe I can contribute a bit though by sharing the following quote from Swiss philosopher Denis de Rougemont.
I was reminded of it while going through my notes and highlights for a piece by @genagorlin and it’s from his 1936 book “Penser avec les mains” (Thinking with your hands). Denis de Rougemont – also citing Rilke – wrote down this beautiful idea which I think also matches nicely the “introspection by doing”:
“It is time that thought becomes what it truly is: dangerous for the thinker and able to transform reality. “Where I create is where I am true” Rilke. […] Some think, other acts. But man’s true condition is to think with his hands.”
– Denis de Rougemont. Penser avec les mains.
(English translation by Theophanidis, Philippe. “‘Penser Avec Les Mains’ (‘Thinking with Your Hands’) by Denis de Rougemont, 1936,” January 30, 2013. https://aphelis.net/penser-mains-thinking-with-hands-denis-rougemont-1936/.)
for completeness’ sake, the piece mentioned is https://open.substack.com/pub/genagorlin/p/the-builders-yardstick-your-life
I will have to miss the call but I would be really keen to see the questions you come up with. Maybe you could add them to the footnotes?
A book or essay series on agency sounds great. I'd love to join the call.
Living a life with much manual labor (fetching water, growing food, etc) has had a positive impact on me. Though I have much less free time, I feel better able to (slowly) understand what actually matters.
If you want to talk about Aristotle there are some good people here:
https://substack.com/@aristotlestudygroup
but, oh, how slow things progress there!
I am interested in the video call but I may have to work.
p.s. I am drowning in wild strawberries, too. Getting a litre a day. So much nicer than a lawn.
new meeting link: https://meet.google.com/vsc-sqpc-bgm
thank you, looking in the wrong place, again, sigh.
yes, I couldn’t find your email and I wanted to return to the call as rapidly as possible so I did what I could! glad you figured out where I put the link. thanks for today :)
best way to talk with you? here or email?
it is easier for me to read with undivided attention in email
ok sent you one in the hopes it is the correct email address. send me an 'ack' this works if it does, better email addr if it doesn't
That's a nice idea with a study group. I'll add you to the call and you feel free to ghost us!
Loved the observation that competition pulls you away from yourself. Competition does feel somewhat antithetical to agency. Competition is playing games that others have already created, but agency means playing a game of your own
I like that formulation. I read this essay yesterday which connects with the point you make in an interesting way: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2014/11/05/dont-surround-yourself-with-smarter-people/ It is a bit of a sprawling mess but many interesting observations.
I have found ribbonfarm to have some interesting insights. Reminds me of Taleb
Ribbonfarm and the Ribbonfarm Studio here on Substack are two of my favourites. You might find it interesting BTW that Rao considers Taleb as his “evil twin”:
“…somebody who thinks exactly like you in most ways, but differs in just a few critical ways that end up making all the difference. Think the Batman and the Joker.”
https://www.ribbonfarm.com/series/worlding-raga/
https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/09/17/your-evil-twins-and-how-to-find-them/
A lot of Venkatesh’s thinking relates back to James Carse’s work on “Finite and Infinite Games” and the idea of whether you act as a “finite player” (playing to win) or as an “infinite player” (playing to play - and compete for life, if you wish). I think he mentions it in the post Henrik links to, the book itself is worthwhile, up to the very last line (literally!).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_and_Infinite_Games
I would love to join the call :) I also responded the email but have not heard back? Not sure if maybe because it hasn’t forwarded to the right place?
Hm. I think I included you (are you phuonghatrannguyen00@gmail.com). I'll send again and if you don't recieve it, check the spam folder, and then let me know here in the comment and I'll send you the meeting link in DMs instead. See you soon!
Saw it, thank you! See you!!
I would like to join the call!
"...being sentenced to freedom..." beautiful <3
I discovered Escaping Flatland no too long ago and fell in love with the words! Would be happy to join the call.
That is a Sartre reference! See you on the call. I'll send out info in about 10 hours or so :)
Hello Henrik, I am interested in this mystery call…
i’d like to join
I would also love to join the video call!
Great post - I always love reading content that examines sincere and non competitive flavours of agency vs their alternatives . And btw I’d love to join this call! 😁
That's a neat idea you got there, charting an optimally accurate of both inner and outer reality, and then plotting a course in it to get what you want.
Has traces of Hesse's "You can get everything if you can think, wait, fast" in Siddartha, as he also charts a course and then endures it until he hits the target, he describes the course itself like being a rock, sinking to the bottom of the river, after you have flung yourself in.
Your form of agency would be calculating the flight angle of the rock before flinging it.
I don't think that is agency tho, agency is having the will (to power) to actually fling the rock, send it off, let it fly.
No, not before! It is about flinging rocks and being good at it and reflecting on where to fling them as you go about it.